Strelivo a jeho ranivý účinok

inspiring_liskov

Príspevok od používateľa inspiring_liskov »

patriot662 napísal: Zdržím sa osobných invektív
8) Zatial sa Ti moc nedari, ale skus sa vratit k teme. A hlavne si over ci nahodou nepises nezmysly, pretoze od takeho profika je to este vacsia hanba.

§4 ods.3 Zakázaným strelivom je písm b) strelivo do krátkych guľových zbraní s expanznou strelou,
s výnimkou ich použitia na športové účely
Naposledy upravil/-a inspiring_liskov v 03 Jún 2016, 10:57, upravené celkom 1 krát.
Používateľov profilový obrázok
Mesi
moderátor
Príspevky: 3690
Dátum registrácie: 15 years 6 months

Príspevok od používateľa Mesi »

Pani, vasa diskusia tu nikoho nezaujima. Chodte si to riesit inam. Roman podotkol ze patriot oznacil nespravne expanzne strelivo za zakazane (aj ked sa mohol drzat len faktickej poznamky) a od toho momentu si tu dokazujete kto ma vacsieho internetoveho vtaka.

Kaslite na to a ked sa chcete uistit ze ten ci onen bude mat posledny prispevok tak si tu diskusiu zoberte do sukromnych sprav.
Používateľov profilový obrázok
yarco
moderátor
Príspevky: 4836
Dátum registrácie: 16 years 6 months

Príspevok od používateľa yarco »

Asi tak.
Patriot napísal hlúposť ku ktorej sa ale neprizná, lebo už dávno zabudol, čo my nikdy ani nebudeme vedieť.
Roman na to zase upozornil jeho svojským ofenzívnym spôsobom.
No malé deti hadr :roll:

Pokračujme v téme, kto má ďalšie nutkania, nech si ich realizuje cez súkromné správy.
patriot662
občasný prispievateľ
Príspevky: 29
Dátum registrácie: 8 years 1 month

Príspevok od používateľa patriot662 »

Pozdravujem Vás páni a dámy keďže som si prečítal súkromnú poštu kde mi bola vyjadrená nemalá podpora a v neposlednom rade mi bolo objasnené kto je kto a aký je na neho názor nemám vôbec potrebu sa k včerajšku vyjadrovať a vracať-odteraz sa už iba usmievam :wink: Bol som požiadaný o lepšie foto munície použitej pri teste tak som sa nejaké to foto pokúsil urobiť aj keď v tomto svetle...nooo žiadna sláva.Z ľavej strany:9 Luger Black Mamba,9 Luger SB Subconic,9 Luger ZVS,9 Makarov PPU JHP,9 Makarov DDR,9 Makarov MFS 82,9 Makarov Barnaul,7,65 Browning Hornady 7,65 Browning SB a 5xTokarev SB,bxn53,aym52,bxn54,aym53. A ešte sem priložím fotku náboja Hornady JHP/XTP tentokrát v ráži 6,35 Browning ktorý som kedysi dávno tiež strelil do vody.Foto len potvrdzuje že tieto náboje (aspoň u tohto výrobcu) predsa len nepotrebujú až takú šialenú počiatočnú rýchlosť k tomu aby spoľahlivo "rozkvitli"... Za podporu ešte raz ďakujem.
Prílohy
m_Fotografia-0144.jpg
m_Fotografia-0145.jpg
m_Fotografia-0146.jpg
m_Fotografia-0147.jpg
m_Fotografia-0143.jpg
bujny
častý prispievateľ
Príspevky: 1101
Dátum registrácie: 11 years 5 months
Kontaktovať používateľa:

Príspevok od používateľa bujny »

Tá posledná je 6,35-ka? Aká vzdialenosť? Aká pištoľ? Výsledok je veľmi efektný (pre rýpalov nie efektívny ale efektný).
patriot662
občasný prispievateľ
Príspevky: 29
Dátum registrácie: 8 years 1 month

Príspevok od používateľa patriot662 »

bujny napísal:Tá posledná je 6,35-ka? Aká vzdialenosť? Aká pištoľ? Výsledok je veľmi efektný (pre rýpalov nie efektívny ale efektný).
Áno 6,35ťka vzdialenosť cca 3 metre vystrelené z CZ 45.


edit electron: prispevok na ktory reagujete a bezprostredne predchadza vasmu necitujte!
klapek
prispievateľ
Príspevky: 109
Dátum registrácie: 8 years

Príspevok od používateľa klapek »

Tak som pukol aj ja revolver HS 38 S 3'' a CZ DUO. Strielil som do prirucky nemenovaneho PC programu.
6.35 S&B bez ziadnej deformacie presla solidnym obalom a zastala na rozhrani dvoch knih kazda 2,3 cm. 38 SB skoncilla v prvej knihe, neprerazila ju deformovana do rozmeru priemer 17 mm.
http://www.imageworld.sk/images/64q1on4odxej6dxmyrf.jpg
http://www.imageworld.sk/images/mo2ne85kfxvbj7omsm.jpg
7.65 S&B a 9x19 147 gr AE vypalene z cz 83 a 75 D COMP presli dvoma knihami.
Iny pokus:
CZ DUO 6.35 S&B, CZ 83 7.65 S&B, CZ 75D COMPACT 9x19 American Eagle 147 gr, 9x19 Guard Dog.
Prekazka dve 2,5 cm knihy.
6.35 neprerazila prvu knihu 4/5 hrubky
7.65 prerazila prvu a vzhladom, ze druha kniha bola narusena strelou 6.35, zatocila o 90 stupnov a skoncila viac menej v 4/5 hrubky.
9x19 AE prerazil obe knihy a zarezal sa do dreva na celu svojku vysku.
9x19 GD "rozprcol" sa v druhej knihe, vypadlo z neho kopec modreho plastu vyzeralo to hnusne.
http://www.imageworld.sk/images/6vuo8qc ... 3ijrul.jpg
http://www.imageworld.sk/images/tuhfn5l ... 68sdfg.jpg
Používateľov profilový obrázok
snajprd
občasný prispievateľ
Príspevky: 91
Dátum registrácie: 6 years 3 months

Príspevok od používateľa snajprd »

Neviem do ktorého fóra toto umiestniť, ale chlapci opisujú aké to je byť postrelený. Zaujal ma ten chumaj, čo si sám strelil do ruky zbraňou, ktorú si sám vyrobil, aby zistil aké to je
https://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel ... -be-shot-2
Breza
prispievateľ
Príspevky: 116
Dátum registrácie: 6 years 1 month

Príspevok od používateľa Breza »

Ja som svoju dilemu medzi kalibrami vyriesil uz davnejsie. Aj tento text od Toma Crawforda je pre mna doplnenim toho, ze otazka aky kaliber je ucinejsi, je skor otazkou pre dlhe zimne vecery, ked je nuda a nie je nic podstatne na praci.

For the last 40 years, I've worked as a police officer, a firearms trainer, author, and expert witness, as well as working as an investigator for a state Medical Examiner's office. My field work involves a former career as an paramedic in the projects, and a police armorer as well. I've attended more than a few handgun autopsies, and seen quite a few bullet wounds. Having said that, I feel myself only barely qualified to comment on a topic on which much is not known, and may never be.

But for what it is worth, here are my thoughts on the "9mm vs, .40 controversy" which has now clearly been decided in favor of the 9mm by police departments and military organizations, but for reasons that go far beyond ballistics. I've been watching this for a long time, since I was around and working in ballistics when the .40 was invented. Before that, the controversy was "9mm vs .45", and that one started before I was born. Permit me to share a little history, from an old guy who was there, that you might find interesting.

At the time of the invention of the .40 S&W, the 9mm ammo that was available to us, even in law enforcement, was pathetic. It was terribly ineffective, and we did not even have an agreed upon definition of what good performance meant. Ballistically, researchers were split into two camps...one thought penetration was everything, and the other which relied on expansion. While the .40 was being perfected after the Miami shootout in 1986, everyone had their own idea of what was good, and even Federal agencies disagreed. For example, the FBI wanted at least .40 caliber, while the Secret Service chose a very hot loaded light 9mm that fragmented in the body. For them it worked, but it was no good for patrol officers when it hit a windshield or side body auto glass which the Illinois State Police found out and started tweaking the load. The old .45 was off the table as far as the FBI was concerned, even though it did most of what we needed to do, because they had just been successfully sued by female recruits alleging gender discrimination in making them shoot a large gun....also, to adopt the .45, the Bureau would have to answer the question that if it was so good, why the agents in Miami didn't have it? These were the drivers for the invention of the new cartridge. There was much more politics than ballistics in the decision.

Fast forward to today, 25 years later. The .40 S&W is a fine cartridge with a proven track record after the first five years while the kinks were being worked out. We found out it was a mistake to simply alter a 9mm handgun to accept the .40, and we found that it worked better in tissue with a 155 to 165 grain bullet. If you have such a gun today, with a good hollow point, you are very well armed indeed. But during those 25 years, the 9mm got better as well, and is a completely different cartridge than it was in 1990. Ballistically, there is a very slight advantage to the .40 if you compare the very best .40 loads to the very best 9mm loads, but there is a lot of overlap in performance, and quite frankly the differences are tiny. I've been under the hood of a lot of dead people and I cannot see any difference in the wound tracks, but I come from a city that adopted the .357 SIG, and those wounds are a mess, looking a bit nastier..I guess speed kills after all.

But what you put up with for the small advantage there might be with the best .40 over the best 9mm is grossly accelerated gun wear and parts breakage, and more difficulty in qualifying new recruits, plus an increase of about 40% in your departmental ammo costs. New recruits consistently have the most trouble shooting the .40 due to its character of recoil. Keep in mind they are not dedicated shooters. These things don't really affect the individual owner so much, but if you are the armorer for a department with 600-700 officers, or one with 3,500 sworn where I live now, you see it every day, and if you are the trainer for those people, qualification becomes an ordeal. It is just not that way when the issue gun is a good 9mm, and from a budget standpoint, your officers can practice almost twice as much for the same money.

The bottom line is that you may be right that your .40 could be ballistically superior to my 9mm, but in a way that is so small that it doesn't matter in the vast majority of cases, and in those settings increased practice and better shot placement for many people make up the difference. The guns get stressed less, need to be repaired less often, and have a longer service life in 9mm before needing to be replaced. These are the reasons the FBI and the law enforcement trend is to go back to the 9mm..it is not because the .40 is bad, but rather because the 9mm is better than it ever was before.


History aside, let us fairly compare what is generally considered to be one of the top .40 loads, and its 9mm counterpart from the same manufacturer, Federal. The .40 caliber 165 grain HST leaves the muzzle at 1158 fps, and penetrates 12.0 inches of calibrated ordnance gelatin. It expands to a diameter of .870 inches before it stops. If it encounters heavy clothing, it penetrates .5 inches more, and expands a bit less, to .700 inch. This is phenomenal performance. Go .40...Yay!

Now let us look at the 9mm 147 grain standard pressure load, also an HST from Federal. It generates 20 percent less chamber pressure, and travels more slowly at 1004 fps. It penetrates the exact same 12 inches of bare gel, expanding to .850 inches. In heavy clothing, it penetrates the exact same 12.5 inches as the .40 load, and expands to .690 inch, 1/100th of an inch smaller. I do not know about you, but I am hard pressed to see a difference. In ballistic testing there is more variance from shot to shot from the same box of ammo than that. Go 9mm..Yay! And with more rounds in the gun, less chamber pressure, and no recoil issues with lower cost practice ammo. See my point? The final point i would like to make is that in actual shootings, there is no statistically significant difference in outcomes between shootings with the 9mm and the .40 over the last decade when hollow points have been used. Take that for what you will.

So I say, if you enjoy your .40 and shoot it well, then stick with it. But any ballistic superiority it may have over today's 9mm is a distinction without a difference, in my opinion. The same is pretty much true of the .45. I still love my .45's, but were I choosing a cartridge for a lot of people to use..or for a beginner, it would be a 9mm, and this is contributing to the obsolesence of the .40 and the .357 SIG, even though I think both will still be popular beyond my lifetime.

P.S. - Sniper244 is correct about one thing...unless we are talking about Bonded Tactical .223 at almost two bucks a shot...rounds from a 5.56 carbine do penetrate less than those from the 9mm or the .40. If you doubt this, consult the ATK/Vista Outdoors Law Enforcement website...they own Federal, Speer, and CCI, and on their site they show penetration figures for their .223/5.56 ammo and all their pistol rounds.
Používateľov profilový obrázok
Panzer
Administrátor
Príspevky: 2914
Dátum registrácie: 16 years 9 months

Príspevok od používateľa Panzer »

Odporúčam do pozornosti výbornú 5 dielnu sériu článkov o účinnosti streliva a o jeho ranivom účinku : https://www.valka.cz/16851-Chimera-zast ... ign=serial
Napísať odpoveď

Návrat na "Náboje"